Angostic vs. Atheist

Correct me if I'm wrong, but an agnostic believes that ultimate truth (as in God) is either unknown or unknowable, where atheists believe that there is no God or gods based in scientific proof or lack of specific evidence. ?

Technically, you can be (and ought to be) an agnostic- anything, meaning your beliefs are not certain. Some people term such a situation as being a soft atheist for example as opposed to a hard atheist who declares it a certainty that there is no God.

Of course, if you could prove your spiritual position, then your belief becomes knowledge. The thing is no one has been able to supply such proof, except to say that somehow God proved Himself to them alone which does others no good since nobody can distinguish your situation from being a delusion. BTW, declaring scripture to be divinely inspired is the same thing as declaring the existence of God.

Then there are those who believe certain things in the absence of any evidence at all and against virtual proof.

Hearsay alone does not constitute evidence.

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The term agnostic is used in many ways but it is most frequently used to indicate doubt about the truth of religious and metaphysical claims. In reference to the existence of a deity or deities an agnostic neither believes nor disbelieves, a theist believes, and an atheist disbelieves.


Agnosticism, in general, refers to the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific belief. (e.g. you come to a bridge and you believe that it is safe to cross but you will not know that it is safe to cross until you cross it. If you cross the bridge safely then your belief was a true belief, if the bridge collapses as you cross your belief is a false belief. You are an agnostic until you cross the bridge because the safety of the bridge is not known only believed or disbelieved.



Agnosticism is the view that reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify the belief that deities either do or do not exist. (i.e. the safety of the bridge is not only unknown it is unknowable.)


There are agnostic atheists and there are agnostic theists. Agnostic atheists do not believe any deity exists but do not deny the possibility. Agnostic theists believe a deity exists but do not know it.

and so on...

Not to put too fine a point to it, but, I think it's irrational to assume that we'll never have the knowledge to justify belief. We can only say, with any certainty, that we lack it at this time. IOW, reason is capable, given the necessary evidence, but we can't say with certainty that we'll never have it.

That said, and given that it appears that the universe lacks any evidence revealing the existence or non-existence of God, we probably will never know.

That said, such a perfect 50-50 split about either possibility after all this time and knowledge, would appear to be an indication of design.

it's all sillines ...the whole creator thing exists in the minds of humans because of the 'abnormal' development of human thought and reasoning ... we have a fixation on our own importance ..and so then leap to the conclusion that a species as important as us must have been created for a purpose ...when in fact we are the same as all the other non speculating animals on earth apart from our having developed a taste for cooked food ...which enlarged our brains and has led us on an extremely conceited journey .

In fact I would say exactly the opposite because a "spiritual need" is built int all of us. To my ind that is why Christ said "HAppy is he who recognises his spiritual need" I also believe that is why teh old sayng "There are no Atheists in foxholes" came about, because when push comes to shove there are extremely few who don;t appeal to God.

It's even built into our everyday language, as in "OMG", "God knows" and other similar sayings.

We have a need for God which He built into us, and which some choose to fight for a number of different reasons, not least of which are fear of a more powerful being actually existing, reluctance to admit that a much higher intelligence exists, and a desire to reduce humans to mere animals to excuse certain behaviours.

That is why I say that Atheism is the product of twisted and self interested thinking, and Agnosticism is simply a product of the confusion that Atheism causes in some minds because they see evidence both ways.

Acceptance of a higher power, which created us means acceptance of our own responsibility to that higher power for all our actions, something which many Atheists wish to avoid.

Unfortunately for them truth will eventually come out, and having avoided it for so long I worry about how well they will take it when it does.

Who cares?

If you want to believe, then believe.
If you don't want to believe, then don't believe.
If you're not sure, then do some research and make up your mind on your own.

Again, whilst I can see your point with this bit, I would say the opposite is true.

If we evolved rather than being created that makes us the "top of the tree".

However if, as I am convinced by the evidence, we are created that makes us much lower down the order and means that, yes we were created for a purpose, that purpose being to care for the Earth and all that is on it as well as each other, but we are no longer the "top of the tree" but could even be viewed as someone's "pets".

Evolution raises us to the top, Creation puts us where we belong.

I care. I care about people dying at Armageddon.

Well you got rest of that right anyway. Credit where it is due.

You makes your choice and will get judged on that choice. Fine as long as you are happy to take responsibility for it when / if the time comes, as I am convinced it will.

People like me can inform, possibly even persuade, however in the end it is down to those who choose to listen if they do anything with the information.

However since I firmly believe people's live depend on their making an informed decision then it would be very wrong of me not to put that information out there so that they can.

In Psychology we call that Ethics.

Again it is all down to being prepared to take the consequences if you prove to be wrong.

Mind you in the case of an Atheist the consequences are the same either way, lol. You die of you are right, you die if you are wrong.

If I can take a moment and be as arrogant as you, I'll speak for every single person here save one or two...

Please stop informing. We are all sick to death of you.

Boxer you are far more arrogant than I could ever be.

Fine, I'll keep informing for the sake of the one or two. I'f you're fed up with what I post, don't read it, no-one is forcing you. You are the only one making you suffer it.

Close. An Agnostic is undecided, there may or may not be a God, they certainly feel it is unknown but leave their options open.

An Atheist think he or she knows better than God, lol.

Done.

Lol

it's not built into me ..and just because jesus said something that doesn't mean it's true ? .. and your point regarding people using the word god in everyday expressions ..well, that is merely a symptom of centuries of church influence ..indoctrination if you like ...before the word god was invented ..i'm sure men uttered sayings like ..'by the sword of zeus!'...or ..'i swear on neptunes trident!'... and in the north perhaps ... 'by the will of odin/woden!'... 'i swear it by the hammer of thor!'....etc ..etc ..and if i were in a foxhole ...and thought i was in mortal danger of being ripped apart by a shell ..i'm sure i'd be babbling and squawking all kinds of rubbish as a means of distracting myself ... in desperate times of fear we revert back to our learned superstitions ...that would not mean i accept the existence of god ...it would mean i was so afraid that i lost my rational mind .

and your god must have forgotten to build a need in me for him/her because i don't accept that god exists ...and not for the reasons you've stated ... but for my own reason ...which is ...that believing in invisible beings is extremely silly ...and i don't regard atheism as reducing humans to animal status ...because i don't happen to think we are above animals ..so their is no reduction in my mind .

and i am not self interested ...and i do have a responsible attitude to others .and i am that way without believing in god ..and i have met many others like me ...as for truth .... well it hardly matters in the end does it ?.. i know my body will nurtur the earth and the memories of me will nurtur the thoughts of my friends and family ..that's all that really matters.